Jan 7, 2020
In this episode, Stephen
Hays chats with Clay Cockrell. Clay is a therapist in New
York, NY and has gained quite a bit of notoriety for the medium
through which he meets his clients. He meets his clients for
walks. Clay
started Walk and Talk Therapy in NYC after realizing many
busy professionals simply don’t have time to transit to therapy
sessions.
Clay has been featured on numerous TV shows, and in many publications
including Good Morning America, CNN, The Wall Street Journal, The
Times of London and the NY Times for his unique approach of walking
with his therapy clients instead of meeting in an
office.
It is evident from our conversation
that Clay is passionate about helping people navigate the
complicated world of accessing mental health care. His entire career has been
focused on making therapy convenient. He created The
Online Counseling Directory - which connects
qualified psychotherapists and life coaches with clients all over
the world.
Clay is also the host of the podcast
“Finding Therapy” where he takes listeners through
a step by step process of finding the right therapist and he hosts
another podcast called “The Online Counseling
Podcast” where he educates therapists on the ethical and
effective ways to use technology to connect with
clients.
You can connect with Clay
Cockrell and learn more about his work here: Walk and Talk
Therapy, LinkedIn, OnlineCounseling.com, Podcast: Finding Therapy, Podcast: Online Counseling.
SOME OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT:
- Clay Cockrell is a
therapist in New York City who has always been attracted
to stories about humans and how our histories impact
us. He built his
Walk and
Talk Therapy practice in NYC on the idea that clients
often are busy, stressed out, and rarely willing to make transit
across the city for a therapy meeting in the middle of their busy
day.
- Clay was born and raised in
Kentucky, and his wife is an actress in New York. Clay noticed his clients had
a hard time getting out of the office to come to meetings with
him. He wanted a
way to make it convenient, so he decided to come to his clients,
and host meetings while walking and talking. Clay credits the idea to his
wife suggesting that he make meetings more convenient, and she was
right!
- Clay noticed that as he walked and
talked with clients, that his clients opened up more, and the
sessions were more effective. He also meets with his
clients remotely online now as well and we talk about the
effectiveness of remote therapy via voice, video or text in this
episode.
- One observation Clay made during
walking meetings is that clients are often uncomfortable sitting on
a couch, staring a therapist in the eyes, and revealing their
deepest darkest secrets. However, if you get
the clients moving, there seems to be more of a willingness to be
vulnerable. Maybe this is due to the
movement, maybe it’s a more comfortable environment, maybe it’s the
eye contact.
- Clay’s clients are
primarily men, and we talked at length about men’s mental health
broadly.
Men are resistant sometimes to talking about emotions. It seems to Clay that men are
resistant to sitting down and reflecting. In our society, it hasn’t
been considered “masculine” to go to a therapist. However, that is changing,
and Clay believes that men are seeing the value of therapy more and
more today as stigma decreases.
- Why does this idea of
masculinity keep men from getting help? It’s the media, John Wayne
imagery, being vulnerable is considered bad. We are complex
beings. It’s hard
to live with intention and often we find ourselves operating
whimsically under the influence of what the media tells us we have
to be.
- What makes men willing to
come into therapy for the first time? Desperation and pain, Clay
explains, for the most part.
- We talk about the value of
community in our lives. There are millions of people
in NYC but everybody is lonely. Isolation is dangerous and we
must proactively fight against it.
- How can technology be
leveraged by therapists to help their clients? Clay
encourages people to use meditation apps such as Calm and
Headspace. He also talks about how many
therapists don’t even have a website or know how to market their
practice.
Teletherapy is also a great tool – while it does change the
dynamic, both for good and bad, there are many positive benefits to
teletherapy.
However, there is a need to focus on using technology ethically and
legally when providing care remotely. We must also make sure the
client is suitable for online counseling (someone with suicidal
ideation, psychosis, etc. may not be suitable for online
therapy).
- We talk about the legal
rules around therapy and how they impact online
counseling. The current laws prevent a
therapist from crossing state lines unless they are licensed in the
state where the client is located. Originally states wanted to
protect patients and the licensing boards need to make money so
they require licenses in each state for now. This isn’t an issue
outside the United States. Some states are
coming together to create reciprocity, but this is an issue that
needs to be taken up politically. This needs to be addressed at
the federal level.
- Clay built a platform for
finding a therapist (both in the U.S. and globally, in any
language): OnlineCounseling.com.
Clay’s site investigates the therapists and validates them on
behalf of the potential clients. They spend a lot of time
educating and training therapists on their platform as
well.
Connect with the Stigma
Podcast in the following ways: Website,
Twitter,
Facebook, LinkedIn, Email
Connect with host Stephen
Hays here: Stephen
Hays, Twitter,
LinkedIn, What If Ventures (Mental
Health Venture Fund)